2018-04-27 Lenses, Hovering Bodies, Exploding Buildings

Details about updates to Shores of Hazeron

2018-04-27 Lenses, Hovering Bodies, Exploding Buildings

Postby Haxus » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:55 am

Can't Move in Designer Preview
When trying to preview a building design on a habitable world, I can't move.

Fixed.

Hovering Creature Bodies
I have killed creatures and people, only to see their body hang suspended in the air for a few moments before falling to the ground.

Fixed.

Arena Join Broken
I can't join an arena instance that someone has started.

Fixed.

Ship Recovery Time
Ship recovery time is too long for big ships. You cannot take a berth on another ship while waiting to recover your destroyed ship. This is not fun when your ship takes 22 days to recover.

Ship recovery time is now limited to one hour. The calculation is still 1/2 the build time but it is capped at one hour.

Cargo Manifest
It seems weird trying to see the cargo carried on a ship. The Jettison window is close but its name does not imply that it might be useful for that.

Renamed the Jettison page to the Manifest page. Rearranged the cargo window so the manifest is the first page. Made cargo manifest available to people with no empire, not sure why it was hidden from them.

Lens Quality
To arm an energy weapon bay, you have to pick a single stack of lenses. They all have to be identical. This makes arming a ship that needs 100k lenses difficult. The problem also affects other kinds of ammo for bay weapons.

I looked into enabling the bay weapon to access multiple stacks of lenses or ammo and ran away. This would require extensive changes throughout the combat system and it would complicate the process quite a bit. It creates some perplexing scenarios.

Instead of doing that, I added a button to the Cargo Manifest window to combine stacks of cargo into a single stack. When a stack is combined with another stack, the quantity of the higher Q stack is simply added to the lower Q stack, then the higher Q stack is removed. This will lose empire of origin information and properties of the higher Q stack but it does provide a way to build bundles of lenses and ammo.

Not all things can be combined, such as non empty containers, preons, things with DNA, mission disks, ship and building designs, officer logs, storage media.

Claim World and Flag Doesn't Change
I took the claim from another player to test the neutral claim grab. The message said I took the claim but the flag didn't change.

Fixed.

Building Bulldozer Explosion
Buildings explode when bulldozed using the Construction window. Large buildings are very loud.

Removed the explosion effect when a building is bulldozed.

Agent Teleport
The last update broke my ability to teleport to people without an invitation.

Fixed.
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Re: 2018-04-27 Lenses, Hovering Bodies, Exploding Buildings

Postby Vectorus » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:10 am

Haxus wrote:I added a button to the Cargo Manifest window to combine stacks of cargo into a single stack.


I imagine this will also be useful for military buildings in due course; can we expect a button somewhere on the city window?

Haxus wrote:Ship recovery time is now limited to one hour.


I like this in principle, since I've spent a lot of time with most of my characters shipless (mostly sundives etc.). All the same, repair time currently overflows at 65k seconds, meaning the longest you will ever need to get a ship back in the fight is about 19 hours. Is this a bit quick for strategic warfare?

I think the intended repair time of weeks and weeks is excessive, but perhaps repairs should take three of four days? One week? If ships were recalled with significantly less damage to most systems (except, for example, weapons and shields), but overall repair time were increased beyond 18 hrs, you could get people zipping around in their personal ships nice and fast, without trivializing combat losses.
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Re: 2018-04-27 Lenses, Hovering Bodies, Exploding Buildings

Postby Haxus » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:54 am

If the recovery time was one hour per day that it took to manufacture, then that big 44 day ship would take 44 hours to recover. Perhaps that would be better? It is a very large ship.

Repair times could be reduced similarly.

Actual damage to a recovered ship is somewhat unpredictable. A ship is recovered "as is", the way it was destroyed. Minimal systems are repaired to enable it to hold orbit and to power the life support system, so people can recall to their berths.
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Re: 2018-04-27 Lenses, Hovering Bodies, Exploding Buildings

Postby Minty » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:02 am

One hour per day is a great idea! It's definitely the most balanced way of doing it I've seen.

And great job with all of these bugfixes and tweaks, by the way! You've gotten so many updates done this week, it's incredible!
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Re: 2018-04-27 Lenses, Hovering Bodies, Exploding Buildings

Postby Vectorus » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:10 am

That sounds pretty sensible to me...what do other people think?

In conjunction with those improvements, maybe we could initiate a recall countdown at the airport repair shop as soon as the ship is destroyed, similar to the initial manufacture countdown. Then once it's "locked in", you could release your berth and use another ship until it's ready.

Minty wrote:And great job with all of these bugfixes and tweaks, by the way! You've gotten so many updates done this week, it's incredible!

Seconded!
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Re: 2018-04-27 Lenses, Hovering Bodies, Exploding Buildings

Postby Deantwo » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:23 am

Vectorus wrote:All the same, repair time currently overflows at 65k seconds, meaning the longest you will ever need to get a ship back in the fight is about 19 hours. Is this a bit quick for strategic warfare?

I think the intended repair time of weeks and weeks is excessive, but perhaps repairs should take three of four days? One week? If ships were recalled with significantly less damage to most systems (except, for example, weapons and shields), but overall repair time were increased beyond 18 hrs, you could get people zipping around in their personal ships nice and fast, without trivializing combat losses.

I think the issue is more the way repairs work. You order repairs and your ship instantly gets those repairs and then have to sit there and wait.
It would be better if the ship was slowly repaired. This allows us to cancel the repairs midway and have gotten half the repairs.

To also engage the players a little more in repairs, it could then be encouraged to have the player manually repair the ship while it is being repaired. For example the repairs done manually while being repaired could increase the effectiveness.

Say you dock your badly damaged ship at your station. Order some repairs like normal, but instead of sitting around and waiting, you can grab a tool and help the repair service do their work faster. Don't use spare parts from the cargo hold, because those you got from the service. Repair maybe 10 times (or more) faster than normal while in a service repair state.

And of course I have always wanted a visual effect to show that your ship is being repaired. Maybe add a scaffolding style dry dock around the ship. Doesn't have to be more than visual, no need for collision and such.
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Re: 2018-04-27 Lenses, Hovering Bodies, Exploding Buildings

Postby Vectorus » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:14 am

I like that idea. Repairs are currently an extra dose of waiting, I suppose. So it would refund a portion of the parts to the city if you cancelled early?
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Re: 2018-04-27 Lenses, Hovering Bodies, Exploding Buildings

Postby jakbruce2012 » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:56 am

I like both the ideas of 1 hour of repair, per day of build, and the manual repair assistance. You could assist the repair crew with materials that they have on hand from the repair order. Maybe not 10x as fast, but maybe a few seconds shaved off for every manual repair action. For example you have say 5 or 6 people repairing a ship you could get it operational in just a few hours.
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Re: 2018-04-27 Lenses, Hovering Bodies, Exploding Buildings

Postby Ikkir Isth » Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:30 pm

More or less I'm always for making ships costs a good investment to build and the loss of a ship from actual combat costly... while hopefully making the aye, fly into sun / crash into atmosphere deaths cost far less time to actually repair (mostly because of how ubiquitous they are, and how even now the game crashes ships on its own).

That said, I would still want, more or less, ships recovery to work like so: take a construction slot (slab of proper size or from a suitable space based system with proper construction bay, like a station or a carrier/mothership), having a set scaffolding / recovery time for the base system (like, say, 1 minute per day, used to reserve the slot, gather materials to the design, and spawn the model in a damaged state), then mandatory repairs and maintenance to systems (just to get the core systems up and running and patch holes and cables, something like 20 minutes per day), and then from there standard repair and maintenance / system replacement / refit at standard repair time (which would, hopefully, be less in the case of instant hull crushing deaths or fly into sun moments)

As for berthing required, I really don't see the need to force players to stay berthed to anything at any time; I would think more or less just a deed of ownership / key would suffice, and at any given time the ship itself would simply be at % completion progress for each stage and be able to be tractored/moved any other standard way, even into another constructor bay / slab in another system where it can ask for a construction slot / to resume repairs & recovery.
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