2018-05-11 Blueprint Validation Changes

Details about updates to Shores of Hazeron

Re: 2018-05-11 Blueprint Validation Changes

Postby Haxus » Tue May 15, 2018 9:45 am

Rather than add a minimum required quality for components used in repairs, make using lower quality components lower the quality of the spacecraft system being repaired.

I agree and was already planning to do this. It is essentially the way manufacturing works.

I also agree that making individual modules smaller makes sense if we are going to make this change. I already felt they required too many materials to manufacture.

Doing this, then changing the manufacturing processes for ships, would provide an opportunity to reduce the overall material requirements a bit, as the amounts get blurred through the use of modules. The process would require n modules, instead of n*100 or n*1000 materials. It is n that determines manufacturing time. In essence, a large portion of the manufacturing time would already be completed by manufacturing the modules themselves.

I would not make this change to buildings. Their construction processes seem to work ok, they aren't upgradeable, and repairs already only consume the primary building material, e.g. wood, stone, or metal.

I have heard no dissent against this idea, only good suggestions and possible pitfalls that can be handled without too much difficulty. It will really be a nice improvement. I'll get on it right away, shouldn't take too much work.

Presently, each different part is installed using a different tool. This could be changed so that each different module is installed using a different tool, not ideal when more different kinds of system modules are added. It could be simplified so that each system is repaired using a different tool and that hand repairs cannot change the type of module installed.

Since a system is targeted to install the module, the type of tool is not required to identify what is being installed, as with individual parts, where a soldering iron is used to install electronic parts in multiple different systems. This would allow the same tool to be used for different systems. E.g. a wrench for hull and maneuver drive modules, a soldering iron for shield and sensor modules, for instance.
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Re: 2018-05-11 Blueprint Validation Changes

Postby Ikkir Isth » Tue May 15, 2018 10:06 am

If there is a problem with repairs, there could be module damage vs module destruction in ships.

Ergo: a ship has 1000 module core units of weapons system and takes damage, requiring 30 metal and 10 electronics to repair but leaving module cores intact (reduction of effective ability by that amount). The ship then takes a critical hit and blows out those module cores, the 30 / 10 repair cost goes away as that is no longer repairable and then the ship needs to enter dry dock to replace broken modules.
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Re: 2018-05-11 Blueprint Validation Changes

Postby Haxus » Tue May 15, 2018 10:10 am

Here are the spacecraft systems:
  • Capacitor
  • Control Station
  • FTL Drive
  • Fuel Cell
  • Hold
  • Hull
  • Life Support
  • Maneuver Drive
  • Medical Unit
  • Power Plant
  • Sensor
  • Shield
  • Transporter Room
  • Turret
  • Vehicle Bay
  • Weapon Bay
Here are the tools, the parts they currently repair, and any special materials needed to make the tool.
  • Clamp = Cryo Heat Sink, Magmium Heat Sink, Vulcium Heat Sink
  • Fitting Wrench = Air
  • Glue Gun = Plastic
  • Hammer = Metal, Magmium, Vulcium
  • Knife
  • Magmium Knife
  • Microscope = Myrasplicer
  • Nanopath Calibrator = Tesloid Dissipator, need Myrathane to make.
  • Oscilloscope = Io Tube
  • Pliers = Grav Coupling, Large Rocket Motor
  • Screw Driver = Computer, Gigacell
  • Sewing Needle = Textile
  • Shovel
  • Solder Iron = Electronic Part
  • Tongs = Lumenite, Antiflux Particles
  • Torque Wrench = Heavy Weapon (the one needed for the gun on the A10 was enormous)
  • Vulcium Knife
  • Wrench = Mechanical Part

The only tool that is somewhat difficult to make is the nanopath calibrator. It is currently used when making tesloid dissipators, cloaking shield modules, particle collector bay modules, genesis devices, and storage crystals.

Tesloid dissipators are used when making cloaking shield modules, particle collector bay modules, and adamantine.
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Re: 2018-05-11 Blueprint Validation Changes

Postby Vectorus » Tue May 15, 2018 2:35 pm

I need to think on all this before making any more comments. I'm mostly commented out :lol:

Haxus wrote:It could be simplified so that each system is repaired using a different tool and that hand repairs cannot change the type of module installed.


Nothing against that simplification, but I think that swapping modules by hand should still be possible, even if in a less efficient or more difficult form. There are some situations where it will really get you out of a bind and allow creative solutions; particularly things like harvester, tractor or FTL modules. Perhaps manual swaps are inefficient and inflict damage which is only reparable by a station. The alternative is that, in order to make the swap, people will simply slap down a tiny city with a repair shop, then port the module to that, which is really only a pointless extra step in the same process, isn't it?

This change ought to make quite a few mechanics more transparent.
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Re: 2018-05-11 Blueprint Validation Changes

Postby Haxus » Tue May 15, 2018 6:14 pm

On changing system modules, the current method of applying a module to a system to change it could still work. I forgot that it did not require a tool, just the module. There would need to be enough of those modules in the hold to do the swap, since most systems could require multiple modules to be built.

When changing the type of system module, the ship needs to be rigged for repairs already. In that case, all needed modules would be applied at once and repair time added, like when you buy repairs or upgrades for the ship. This insures all modules are available at once, and that you don't run out of them midway through a system change.

That could be the method of repair also. Field repairs would then require no tools at all, unless a tool should be available in your ready inventory, like when you construct buildings or manufacture things.

Then it is a bit more direct, saying "Install this module into that system." The tools are somewhat incidental and lack of one could reply with a thought message, like "I need a wrench to install this module."

After demonstrating that you have both a module and the appropriate tool, additional modules needed could be gathered from the hold, first, before consuming the module you hold in your hand. This would allow repairing one module at a time until a system is fixed or you run out of modules. Then field repairs could be done without rigging for repairs, which is a highly vulnerable condition.
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Re: 2018-05-11 Blueprint Validation Changes

Postby Minty » Wed May 16, 2018 2:09 am

While you're looking at ships, do you think you could look at the hull collision detection code? I tend to get stuck in just about any hull I touch on new ships, whether it's my own ship or someone's else's. I've even gotten stuck on simpler box-shaped hulls, once or twice. I think the issue is that I always play as characters with maximum points in speed, and they're just too fast for the current detection settings. Unless others have been experiencing this as well?

(It should probably be noted that I have a tendency to run straight into and jump on top of things constantly, and that's why this is a problem I experience a lot. The 3d platformer instincts are strong in me. I once managed to accidentally fall out of one of Vectorus's masterpieces by clipping out of the corner of one of his room voids.)

Obviously, this isn't urgent, just a small annoyance. And there's already technically a solution - plastering every hull with hull voids and barriers - but it seems like it would be pretty inefficient to do all that just to solve a small problem.
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Re: 2018-05-11 Blueprint Validation Changes

Postby Vectorus » Wed May 16, 2018 2:49 am

I wonder if that's related to the time a hole suddenly appeared under my turbolift, and I kept falling through. I can't really reproduce that since that design was deleted, but I'll keep an eye out for it on other designs.

The outside of hulls seem to remain extremely sticky, even more so with buildings.
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Re: 2018-05-11 Blueprint Validation Changes

Postby Reinhard » Wed May 16, 2018 4:15 am

Minty wrote:While you're looking at ships, do you think you could look at the hull collision detection code? I tend to get stuck in just about any hull I touch on new ships, whether it's my own ship or someone's else's. I've even gotten stuck on simpler box-shaped hulls, once or twice. I think the issue is that I always play as characters with maximum points in speed, and they're just too fast for the current detection settings. Unless others have been experiencing this as well?


I've encountered this many times. Try joining all the hull parts in the parts list which surrounds the affected internal walkways and entrances that always get you stuck. That seems to have ended getting stuck everywhere for me.
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Re: 2018-05-11 Blueprint Validation Changes

Postby AnrDaemon » Wed May 16, 2018 6:46 am

Reinhard wrote:I've encountered this many times. Try joining all the hull parts in the parts list which surrounds the affected internal walkways and entrances that always get you stuck. That seems to have ended getting stuck everywhere for me.

Sounds like something that should be done by the program all the time.
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Re: 2018-05-11 Blueprint Validation Changes

Postby Deantwo » Wed May 16, 2018 9:05 am

AnrDaemon wrote:
Reinhard wrote:I've encountered this many times. Try joining all the hull parts in the parts list which surrounds the affected internal walkways and entrances that always get you stuck. That seems to have ended getting stuck everywhere for me.

Sounds like something that should be done by the program all the time.

Sounds like it should be a bug report rather than posted in an update thread.

But yes, collision in general needs some fixing. Would very much like to be able to slide along a wall when walking into it at an angle. I can't think of a single game where that hasn't been a thing, except Hazeron.

Already talked with Haxus about it in-game, and he said that it is on his to-do list.
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